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It's judgment collecting time again, everyone. Heaps of academic love to you in advance, as always.

Requests:

1) Please tell me if you are a native or non-native English speaker.
2) Please do not look at other people's responses before you give your own.

::insert more academic love here::



Jack and Lily are both thieves. They recently visited a giant's castle and went on a stealing spree. As they're on their way back home, news of their escapades reaches the village. Two dwarves are betting with each other on the outcome of the stealing spree.

Hoggle, who doesn't believe Jack and Lily have similar tastes, says: "If Lily stole what Jack stole, I'll stand on my head for a day."

Higgle, who feels they probably do have similar tastes, replies: "If Lily didn't steal what Jack stole, I'll hop on one foot for an entire night."

When Lily and Jack return, they show everyone what they stole.

Jack: enchanted carpet, firebird feather, golden harp, ruby ring, silver apple
Lily: enchanted carpet, firebird feather, ruby ring

Question 1: Does Hoggle have to stand on his head for a day?
Question 2: Does Higgle have to hop on one foot for an entire night?

Note: No partial penalties, please. Either the dwarves lose their respective bets or they don't.

Comments

( 15 comments — Leave a comment )
aelkiss
Oct. 30th, 2004 09:30 pm (UTC)
As you probably know, I am a native English speaker.

My initial reaction is Hoggle: Yes; Higgle: No.

(But all these recent questions bother me;-))
bkleber
Oct. 30th, 2004 11:12 pm (UTC)
Native english speaker...

As with the other situations of this type, I simply feel that the bets are not worded specifically enough to answer verity or falsehood. Lily's loot is a subset of Jack's, so it's really up to interpretation. My logic-anal side is begging for more information, and can't make a decision I'll be happy with.

Wow, I'm unhelpful.
stillvisions
Oct. 31st, 2004 12:04 am (UTC)
I'll say Hoggle has to do some headstanding.
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
radhardened
Oct. 31st, 2004 01:02 pm (UTC)
I'm a native English speaker. American English, to be precise.

I judge that Higgle and Hoggle are each equally right—they both win the bet and they both lose the bet. Let me know if this isn't a valid response.
jalenstrix
Oct. 31st, 2004 03:14 pm (UTC)
Let me know if this isn't a valid response.

Er...well, I was trying to skirt around this with the "Either the dwarves lose their respective bets or they don't". However, if you have to say that each one either won or lost his bet (but not both), how would it work out for Hoggle and Higgle?
radhardened
Nov. 1st, 2004 06:16 am (UTC)
If I have to pick exactly one winner and one loser, I'll say that Hoggle won with his implicit claim that Lily didn't steal what Jack stole. So:

Q1: No
Q2: Yes
jalenstrix
Nov. 1st, 2004 06:40 am (UTC)
If I have to pick exactly one winner and one loser

Oops - I think I miscommunicated again. I meant that you have to say for Hoggle if he won or lost (but not both) and for Higgle if he won or lost (but not both).

Does this alter your answer any?
radhardened
Nov. 1st, 2004 06:44 am (UTC)
Ah, oh, yes, that alters my answer.

Now I'll say that Hoggle won and Higgle won. So:

Q1: Yes
Q2: Yes

I'm so difficult!
jalenstrix
Nov. 1st, 2004 06:54 am (UTC)
[grin] Thanks! (I just have to learn how to communicate my intentions on these questions better. ;) )
glitter_ninja
Oct. 31st, 2004 02:04 pm (UTC)
I'm a native English speaker.

Q1: No.
Q2: Yes.

Lily didn't steal anything from Jack, so Higgle has lost the bet.
jalenstrix
Oct. 31st, 2004 03:18 pm (UTC)
Oops - that's not the interpretation I was going for, given the context.
The idea is that Lily and Jack are both stealing things from the giant, not Lily stealing from Jack.

Can you get the interpretation where "Lily stole what Jack stole" is referring to the set of things Lily and Jack stole, and how similar these sets of things are?

For example: "Lily stole a magic carpet from the giant. Jack also stole a magic carpet from the giant."
Did Lily steal what Jack stole?
(The answer would be yes, since both Lily and Jack stole a magic carpet from the giant.)

Could you use this interpretation on the questions above? Thanks. :)
bean_frog
Nov. 1st, 2004 02:42 pm (UTC)
I'd say they both lost the bet.
Everything lily stole, Jack also stole.
Lily didn't steal some of what Jack stole.
halophoenix
Nov. 2nd, 2004 09:05 am (UTC)
1. native. ^_^

2. Yes, and yes. Both scenarios are strictly true; Lily both did and did not steal what Jack stole.
( 15 comments — Leave a comment )

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